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William Moore & Sons Shotgun (Read 4000 times)
13th Feb, 2007 at 2:35am
clkgt   Ex Member

 
I have bought a double barrel shotgun marked Wm Moore & Sons.  There are several marks underneath the forearm piece.  It is a breech loader but has an odd way of breaking down.  There is a funny shaped bar that runs down the side of the gun.  I think the William Moore and Sons was a company in England but that is all I know.  Can anyone help?

Gene
 
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Reply #1 - 13th Feb, 2007 at 6:10am

bill_curtis   Offline
Senior Member
Wales

Posts: 983
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I believe that what you have there is a Belgian "Knock-Off" of a famous London Maker.  William Moore and his successors never traded as William Moore and Sons.

If you can give me VERY full details of ALL the marks under the barrels it will help to decide exactly what it is you have.

If you are in the USA what you have will come as no surprise as that was the principal market for large numbers of Liege guns masquerading as English under various well known London maker's names.
 

W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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Reply #2 - 14th Feb, 2007 at 9:13pm
clkgt   Ex Member

 
OK here is what I found.  On the receiver (inside after barrel is removed- 2328   3   C

On the side plates (hammers) ?? Moore & Sons, it looks like a captial W with a smaller under score m. also removed one of these and on the back are the letters PK (as close as I could tell, P was plain, K was a little blurred)

On the bottom of the barrels There is an
                E
               LG  (might even be LC)
there is a circle drawn around these letters.
a letter N
a symbol that kind of looks like an upside down tack (roughly speakly).
113 - on rib between barrels
67
L1 (as near as I can figure, might even be a 17, hard to know for sure)
Then there is a symbol - looks like a capital written L, but more old style looking.  There is a faint impression of another letter that overlaps this letter, maybe CL??  The L is very clear, the C is not so clear, might not even be a C, might just be some fancy lines for the L

Is there the possiblility that this is a muzzle loader converted to a breech?  Not sure about how this is done but some of the workmanship kind of reminded me of that?? Just a thought. It does have 32" barrels.
 
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Reply #3 - 15th Feb, 2007 at 1:18am

bill_curtis   Offline
Senior Member
Wales

Posts: 983
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ELG in a circle is the Proof Mark of the Liege Proof House in Belgium.  As I suspected, a wholly Belgian gun designed for the American market and intended to give the impression it was a Best London Gun.  It was certainly never a muzzle loader. Probably dates from 1875 to 1900.
 

W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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Reply #4 - 21st Feb, 2007 at 12:33am
clkgt   Ex Member

 
I also have a double barreled muzzle loading shotgun.  I took it apart and it also has the Leige mark on it (but I think it was 4 letters instead of three).  Also had the upside down tack (tower there in Leige - I think).  Does this mean that my muzzle loading shotgun is not worth anything either?
Thanks,
Gene
 
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Reply #5 - 21st Feb, 2007 at 2:28am

Feltwad   Offline
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Posts: 838
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Your D/B muzzle loader although it is Belgium made if still in shooting condition is worth on the English market  100 -150.
Belgium muzzle loaders were made up to the 1960 mostly for the African Trade .I did purchase one at that time its makers name was "Centuria".
The proof marks on your muzzle loader by what you describe are the ELG within a circle with the crown on top and a star below are the proof marks of  1815 these marks are still in use. The  tower mark  of 1853 is also still in use today.
Feltwad
 
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Reply #6 - 21st Feb, 2007 at 2:39am
clkgt   Ex Member

 
I could not find a maker's name on the muzzle loader.  It does have a very nice brass trigger guard, the part on the back of the guard is long extending well back onto the stock.  Has a nice look to it.  The Belgium mark underneath the stock does not have a crown and star, just the letters within a circle.  It has a wooden ramrod and it does look old enough to be the original but do not know for sure.
 
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Reply #7 - 21st Feb, 2007 at 3:25am

Feltwad   Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 838
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It seems that your Belguim muzzle loader is one of the better ones.
Does  it have sling swivels on the stock and the barrels also are the barrels damascus.
Can you post a photo it would help.

Feltwad
 
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Reply #8 - 21st Feb, 2007 at 4:12am

bill_curtis   Offline
Senior Member
Wales

Posts: 983
****
 
When I answered your enquiry about the Belgian "Moore" hammer gun, I deliberately forbore from stating if it had any value as in such items there are many ways of reaching a valuation.  Clearly it will be nothing like that of a London Wm. Moore.  If it is a 12 Bore then it will be subject to a Certificate and this always has an adverse effect on value in guns of this vintage unless they have pedigree, decoration and condition.  Muzzle loaders are in a different field altogether as they need no paperwork provided they were made before WW2.   Condition is then the first consideration.
The upside down "tack" represents the Perron, a famous monument in Liege in the form of a column on a plinth.  It is the View Mark of the Liege Proof House (since 1853).
 

W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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