Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain

Sep 27^th, 2011 at 12:09pm

Feltwad Offline
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Posts: 630

Looking for extra information on this gun maker to aid my research plus images of surviving punt or stanchion guns and large bore fowling shoulder guns.
Feltwad

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Reply #1 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 12:28pm

GNT Offline
New Member

Posts: 13

Have you seen this document:

http://www.btinternet.com/~clive.elliston/ladwaca/zip_files/southampton_gun_make...

There is some info on page 3 that may be of interest.

GNT

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Reply #2 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 2:51pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

Yes I have seen this document, however I have not as yet received a reply from Clive Elliston for information and any images of existing guns of this gun maker.
Feltwad

« Last Edit: Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:15pm by Feltwad »

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Reply #3 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 8:37pm

dbm Offline
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UK

Posts: 342

Where was Clayton based?

David

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

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Reply #4 - Sep 27^th, 2011 at 9:05pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

Alfred Clayton first mentioned address was the High St Lymington.Peter Hawker mentioned that he did work for him in his diaries,he moved to Southampton in 1855
Feltwad

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Reply #5 - Sep 30^th, 2011 at 6:23pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

With an absence of images of fowling and punt guns of Alfred Clayton must mean that few were made and very rare .
Feltwad

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Reply #6 - Jun 14^th, 2012 at 5:42pm

gingerblayney Offline
New Member

Posts: 17

Hi Feltwad
I thought I had posted a message to you but now I don't see it.
I think I have just acquired a Clayton Punt Gun.
It is engraved onthe top with TON SOUTH..PTON It is good quality engraving Roman font but poorly visible. The spacing leaves no room for there to be an E between the N and the S (if it was STONE) the end of the name of the other Southampton maker. The stock looks similar in shape and attachment to the presumed though unnamed Clayton in Clive Ellistons picture. I'm about to have the lock apart to see if there is any name inside, and check the quality of the workmanship. There is also a possibility that the breech pug end may have been changed/modified which might explain the absence of the first part of the engraving.
I can send photos if you require.
Ginger Blayney

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Reply #7 - Jun 14^th, 2012 at 9:39pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

Gingerblayney.
Sure I returned a PM it must have been lost.The only information that I have of Alfred Clayton is what is wrote in Hawkers Diaries..Yes very much I would like to see images of your Clayton Punt gun,I have enclosed images of my 6 bore Tube Lock by Clayton
Feltwad

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Reply #8 - Jun 20^th, 2012 at 5:19pm

gingerblayney Offline
New Member

Posts: 17

In process of taking pics for you.
Had lock apart. Greased up and in fine condition. No name inside but beautiful workmanship.
As yet unable to get breech plug unscrewed to check and clean bore.
Found a chemical used to reveal filed off/worn off stampings.
Hope it might also work on worn engraving.
Ginger

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Reply #9 - Jun 20^th, 2012 at 6:44pm

dbm Offline
YaBB Moderator
UK

Posts: 342

A.Clayton and J.Riley have a patent (provisional protection only) for "Punt guns; breech actions, hinged-barrel and drop down barrel." No. 897 of 1869.

David

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

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Reply #10 - Jun 20^th, 2012 at 7:16pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

A Clayton did file a patent for his tube this was fitted with a butterfly or oval for easy extraction.
Feltwad

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Reply #11 - Jun 21^st, 2012 at 7:24am

dbm Offline
YaBB Moderator
UK

Posts: 342

Are you referring to the "tube for my ignition gun" that Hawker mentions? That was not patented (and is referred to in 1851).

The patent I reference is in 1869.

David

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

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Reply #12 - Jun 21^st, 2012 at 9:02pm

Feltwad Offline
Senior Member

Posts: 630

The 10th edition of [Instructions To Young Sportsman } page 88 shows two primers patented by Clayton
Feltwad

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Reply #13 - Jun 21^st, 2012 at 10:46pm

dbm Offline
YaBB Moderator
UK

Posts: 342

What Hawker writes is that these "primers were registered by Mr. Alfred Clayton."

I think he is referring to a Registered Design, not a Patent. Clayton does not feature in the 'Abridgements of patent specifications relating to firearms and other weapons ammunitions & accoutrements, 1588-1858'.

A report about Hawker in the Birmingham Gazette of 28 July 1851 also refers to Clayton and confirms he has "invented and registered an improved handle for the primers of this ignition. Except this all is free to the trade. No patent."

David

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history

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Reply #14 - Jun 26^th, 2012 at 1:20pm

gingerblayney Offline
New Member

Posts: 17

Pictures of Clayton? Punt Gun as found, and starting to undergo restoration.
Nicely made lock.
Lock plate latterly held on by brass plate as both original retaining screws missing or stripped
Interesting canvas recoil pad.
Stock drilled for small breaching rope?
Bevelled section cut into barrel just fore of stock. Has an underbarrel breeching loop broken off? Signs of brazing.
Stock has been sawn and old large door hinge attached----a quick but crude solution to attaching breeching rope (presumably with bolt and retaining nuts/washers through hinge pin hole.) Was this a response to aformentioned breakage.
Breech plug end large cast block. High new nipple.
Could this be the a converted tubelock.
Would this explain the disappearance of the first part of the
engraving.
A rubbing of engraving gave ....ton southampton, in capitals.
Will try and elicite more with chemicals.
Weight 75lbs. Bore 1.25" approx. Yet to measure accurately. Muzzle end worn to 1.5"
Comments please.
Ginger.
Help please
Have pics on camera card as JPG's.
How do I get them on this forum. Tried "help"on "insert images" but reply means nothing to me.

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