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parker hale whitworth rifle (Read 5730 times)
19th Oct, 2011 at 3:08pm

jwh49   Offline
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wirral

Posts: 7
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i have bought myself a parker hale whitworth rifle .451 and i intend to shoot is within the next few days.i will be using a 500grn flat based bullet from the mould which was with the rifle.parker hale say a load of 60 grn of swiss no2.Has anyone any thoughts on this load as i thought it a bit on the weak side.i was thinking of 70grn of swiss 3 for 200yds.
                              many thanks.
 
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Reply #1 - 20th Oct, 2011 at 12:33pm

paulab   Offline
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Posts: 142
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JWH....I would start at 70 grains and then go up in 5 grain increments. I would initially shoot 5 shot groups from a benchrest with sandbags fore and aft. If you are meticulous in your shooting technique and cleaning between shots, you should be able to see which load works best in your rifle. If the groups aren't as tight as you think they should be, try another powder granulation and start over. When you get what you think is a good load, try it several more times to confirm that the first good group wasn't a fluke. Good luck!   Paul
 
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Reply #2 - 20th Oct, 2011 at 4:51pm

dbm   Offline
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UK

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Light charges of fast burning powders (such as Swiss No. 2 [3Fg]) are sometimes used for short range (100m) shooting. Such powders can cause rapid nipple erosion.

I would start as you suggest with Swiss No. 3 [2Fg].

David
 

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history
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Reply #3 - 20th Oct, 2011 at 9:17pm

Pat in Virginia   Offline
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Also,

Be aware that one of the differences in dealing with a Whitworth has to do with its hexagonal rifling.  You need to get the corners clean beween shots.  I use a hex jag for that purpose.  (If you check my posts, you will find one where I descibe how I had it made.  The first one I made myself with a hand file, etc.)  Since you are just getting started consider using a stiff nylon/plastic brush wrapped witrh a patch.  You need to clean those corners consistently and well or your accuraccy will degrade as the gunk builds up in them.

If you are shooting cylindrical bullets you will probably need a hex wad to prevent gas cutting.  Peter Dixon in the UK sells them.  He also sells a hex wad cutter so you can make your own from pressed wool felt.

Have fun,

Pat

 
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Reply #4 - 20th Oct, 2011 at 11:27pm

jwh49   Offline
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wirral

Posts: 7
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many thanks for the replies.my main concern with swiss 2 is its about 20% faster as dbm says and will lead to much quicker nipple erosion.i think i will try swiss 3 first.just out of interest how do people find henry kranks medium powder.i find it ok in my 45/70.
 
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Reply #5 - 21st Oct, 2011 at 7:30am

josef   Offline
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Posts: 8
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Good morning,
sorry for my english Cry but i'm a french shooter.
I have too a Parker Hale whit worth. I use 70 grains SN°2 1 héxagonale (greasy cardboard?) "rondelle de carton grasse" (in french)  and  457121 lyman bullet but hard lead. And i don't clean every shoot.
look pictures at 100m in two last matchs

...

...


 
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Reply #6 - 21st Oct, 2011 at 10:24am

bill_curtis   Offline
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Wales

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I would not use hard lead with a cylindrical bullet.  The bullet holes in the target should be hexagonal to show proper upset of the bullet into the rifling, difficult in a Whitworth without a softer bullet.
 

W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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Reply #7 - 21st Oct, 2011 at 11:25am

josef   Offline
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Posts: 8
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I try soft lead but it's not good for me. If you see targets, you 'll to see holes are hexagonals.
For 100m, it's ggod for me, but i want to shoot mide range.
I read a lot off to this long gun, here and in France. What is recommande for this distance? The Peter Dydon bullet whitworth mould it is good for paper jacket realoded?
 
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Reply #8 - 21st Oct, 2011 at 9:48pm

Pat in Virginia   Offline
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Posts: 146
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Josef,

You should not need a fitted hex bullet for midrange; cylindrical bullets should work fine.   Remember that the Whitworth rifle made its reputation using hardened, swaged, PP bullets.    But, due to their expense the shooters of the period often used PP cylindrical bullets out to mid-range and used the expensive swaged bullets for long range (or so I have been told).

I'm a bit surprised soft lead isn't working for you.  Perhaps your bullet is too light and the upset on ignition is destroying it's profile - use a longer/heavier bullet >= 530 grains or more.  I'm going to try a 575 grain GG bullet in mine.

Perhaps you are getting too much gas cutting initially - try Peter Dyson's hex felt wads.  Make sure you have a bullet that is properly fitted to the bore (no more than .001 less than bore size).

What is the condition of your bore?  Leading will be more evident in a bore with pitting?

And don't forget about a hex jag to get the corners of the bore clean.  Soft lead will be more impacted by hard fouling.


Pat


 
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Reply #9 - 22nd Oct, 2011 at 6:50am

josef   Offline
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Posts: 8
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thank you for your advise.
i tryed as well hex felt wads (make with P.Dyson hexagonale cuter) it's not good for me. The better for my PH long rifle is the hexagonale greazy card.
Here are several testing.
http://www.casimages.com/f.php?f=110806070939588779.pdf
Sorry it's in french Undecided
 
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Reply #10 - 31st Dec, 2011 at 9:54pm

Mainspring   Offline
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Derbyshire.

Posts: 340
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Bonjour Josef,Tomorrow I am going to the Range to try out a swaged to hexagon Postel Bullet Paper patched in my 451 Beasley Whitworth Rifle.So far I have had very little success with a variety of Bullets including the Dyson Hex bullet.Hopefully I will have success with this untried one.
Pardon for not being able to converse in french.Mais je parle le francaise come une vach espagnol.
                                 Regards.
 
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Reply #11 - 2nd Jan, 2012 at 7:16am

Mainspring   Offline
Senior Member
Derbyshire.

Posts: 340
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Bonjour,at 200 yards yesterday using the swaged to hexagon paper patched Postel bullet in the Beasley Whitworth The windage was good and fairly consistent but the elevation needed a lot to be desired.This could possibly be down to driver error.Encouraged by the windage results I think I might be on the right track.I Weighed my powder charges but ommitted to weigh and select Bullets this could have a bearing on the eratic elevation results.
                                      Regards.
 
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Reply #12 - 2nd Jan, 2012 at 8:45am

dbm   Offline
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UK

Posts: 385
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I've found bullet weight to be less critical than weighed powder charges in controlling elevation, although at 200 yards the effects (unless charges wildly differ) may not be significant.

What nipple are you using? If the flash hole is enlarged then this can be a major source of variation in elevation. Platinum lined nipples are commonly used in these .451 rifles.

David
 

Research Press - www.researchpress.co.uk
Firearms, long range target shooting and associated history
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Reply #13 - 2nd Jan, 2012 at 1:00pm

Mainspring   Offline
Senior Member
Derbyshire.

Posts: 340
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Thank you David,I must confess to making my own nipples
( DIY addict ) perhaps an investment in Platinum Lined Nipples is the answer.The fact that my old rifle is holding windage OK spurs me on to get it shooting.The Rifle is one that I rescued from obscurity a few years ago being in need of restoration due to previous tampering.The barrel and furniture where painted with alluminium paint and the stock channel had been opened up to fit a Repro Brown Bess Barrel luckily the owner abandoned his project and sold it to me.I have sensitivly brought it back to something like a well used 1860s Rifle.
                                          Regards.
 
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Reply #14 - 10th Apr, 2012 at 7:51pm

josef   Offline
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Posts: 8
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Good evening.
have you pics of shooting bullet tests ?
 
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